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Go Back   CigarFamily.com -- Official Site of the Arturo Fuente and J.C. Newman Cigar Family > The Trading Room
Reload this Page AE Lloyd?
SLF       Aug. 09, 1998 05:05 pm
Cgar        Aug. 09, 1998 05:53 pm
jeffery       Aug. 09, 1998 06:57 pm
Peter Lloyd       Aug. 09, 1998 06:58 pm
Jazzman       Aug. 09, 1998 08:47 pm
avenge0410@aol.com       Aug. 09, 1998 11:48 pm
SLF       Aug. 10, 1998 12:34 am
Joe (joef@gte.net)       Aug. 10, 1998 01:13 am
BobbyK       Aug. 10, 1998 11:05 am
smokering       Aug. 10, 1998 04:41 pm
David       Aug. 10, 1998 05:49 pm
jk       Aug. 10, 1998 07:35 pm
Stevie       Aug. 10, 1998 08:53 pm
jeffery       Aug. 10, 1998 09:34 pm
jeffery       Aug. 10, 1998 09:37 pm
Foothill 16       Aug. 10, 1998 09:47 pm
Bob R.       Aug. 10, 1998 09:55 pm
JDA       Aug. 11, 1998 12:13 pm
Simon       Aug. 11, 1998 01:03 pm
GeoffM24       Aug. 11, 1998 08:27 pm
Bob K       Jul. 29, 2009 03:00 pm
hoffman       Jul. 29, 2009 03:46 pm
Fuente Fan       Jul. 29, 2009 03:59 pm
mkitman       Jul. 29, 2009 04:49 pm
Lemon :)       Jul. 29, 2009 05:59 pm
Willjaym       Jul. 29, 2009 07:27 pm
MNeadle       Jul. 29, 2009 07:39 pm
Bob K       Jul. 30, 2009 05:35 pm

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SLF
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Default August 9, 1998, 05:05 PM

Peter,

No one here is being libelous Peter, and I don't recall anyone calling you a "crook". Some of your past customers are merely stating facts. If the truth is considered libelous in the UK, then I'm very sorry for you.

Your answer of "$15.00 a month" is about what I expected. If you don't want to answer my questions, that's your choice. I'm sure you have your reasons. However, in lieu of any specific answers from you with regard to my questions listed above, I (we)will just have to continue to draw my (our) own conclusions.

SLF


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Default August 9, 1998, 05:53 PM

I have only seen one person post here that could in all honestly be called a expert in Cuban Cigars.. Also that person has twice now offered to speak to any parties not satisfied with the product they have recieved...

Peter you have given me respect for you in the way you have handled the accusations against you...

SLF as to wheather or not anyone called anyone a "crook" I would venture to say that if you acuse someone of selling fakes that would constitute an act of fraud and even in the States here I am sure that is considered Libelous...

That is just my opinion and I may be wrong...

<a href = "mailto:cgar@mwci.net"><em>Cgar </em> </a>
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Default August 9, 1998, 06:57 PM

As I stated prior Peter has always been 100% honest and a true gentleman with me. He has helped me with the opportunity of gettting his cigars with a 100% guarantee of delivery. For the record I have not called Peter to purchase any cigars for well over 2 months now. I just feel more comfortable getting cigars from 3 other sources in the UK thats packaging is consistent 100% of the time. This is just my own pet pieve.
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Default August 9, 1998, 06:58 PM

I beleive someone is doing a hatchet job here ,i am a personal friend of :-Simon Chase co-author of "The Cigar Companion " with Anwar Bati,Nick Freeman ,Wyndham Carver. I spent a week with them at their invitation at the Trinidad launch in February.They are all Directors of the importers here ,please call them and see what they say about me on 011 44 171 371 0515, or anyone at Davidoff's ,Dunhill's ,J.J. Fox or Sautters of Mayfair.Yours sincerely, Peter Lloyd End of all my correspondence.
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Default August 9, 1998, 08:47 PM



I felt compelled to jump in here even though I have never purchased cigars from Mr. Lloyd. Now I'm not going to take sides but I do want to say that I think it is in very poor taste to make these accusations against a man of such good character who states that he backs all his cigars with a 100% replacement guarantee.
Simon and SLF, just what do you want to accomplish here? Are you going to settle for nothing less than tarnishing the good name of Peter Lloyd? If that is your motive I'm sorry to think that fellow Cigar Family members have to stoop so low to exact thier revenge. The original purchaser should be held responsible for exchanging the questionable cigars and everything could be worked out in a satisfactory and gentlemanly manner.

Just my .02 cents worth.

Jazzman
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Default August 9, 1998, 11:48 PM

jazzman:

everyone at this forum knows that Simon does not like me, and i have never spoken or traded with SLF. Additionally, i have never dealt with Peter Lloyd.

But what simon and slf are doing, is protecting other members of this family. I cant imagine what alterior motive either of them would have. Both have said that they smoked cigars from lloyd that were fake, and i respect both opinions. It's obvious that some here swear by lloyd, while others think he is selling fakes. but isnt it our right to know these facts??

sorry to babble on so long...Steve
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Default August 10, 1998, 12:34 AM

Read the thread again guys, I have never acused Mr. Lloyd of selling fakes, nor am I in any way, shape or form attempting to "exact revenge", slander or do a "hatchet job" on him. I have never purchased anything from Mr. Lloyd. Why would I want revenge? Additionally, I am not trying to "accomplish" anything. I was merely responding to someone who did claim to receive fakes and others who claimed to have doubts about some of Mr. Lloyds stock. I know these individuals making these claims and I consider them to be gentleman of good character and above reproach. What about tarnishing their reputations? Are their reputations any less valuable than Mr. Lloyds?

I merely made the observation that grey market cigars are being sold out there. These are not fakes, just poor quality Havana's. If you chose not to believe this, that's your choice. I was simply posting an objective opinion. If Mr. Lloyd does not engage in this practice, then all he has to do is say so.

As far as being libelous is concerned, I don't think a judge would consider exercising your freedom of speech to be libelous. To be convicted of libel, you must successfully prove that the accused is not only lying, but is also guilty of malice. I know I'm not lying when I speak of poor quality cigars being sold by some retailers and I certainly have no malicious intent toward Mr. Lloyd. I don't even know him.

I apologize if my statements offended anyone. I was merely adding to the thread by sharing some information that I have personally learned the hard way.

SLF

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Default August 10, 1998, 01:13 AM

Shorthand Lay Definitions:

Slander: spoken untruths made public to at least one other person;

Libel: written untruths made public to at least one other person;
...no necessity of malice or intent to defame the reputation of another; reckless republication of the untruth is usually sufficient for liability purposes.

FWIW, Joe

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Default August 10, 1998, 11:05 AM

I have to throw in my $.02 here. I've been a customer of Peter's for a few years now. I've never had a bad cigar from him and his customer service could be used as a model for any retailer.

I think heresay accusations are inexcusable and I am appalled at the way some people here have reacted.

Peter, you probably don't recognize me from my screen name, but I hope you know there are plenty of people out here who support you.

SLF, if the libel was easy to define, there would be no need for judge and jury. One could easily interpret your remarks as malicious since you have accused Llyod's of selling grey market, second-rate cigars while admitting you have no first hand knowledge of his retail business.

Here is a quote from one of your messages:

<B>I have no doubt that Lloyd's, and the vast majority of European retailers hawking their wares to U.S. citizens on the web makes grey market cigars their stock and trade, at least to their desparate U.S. customers. Sure Lloyd's has been in business for umpteen years, but so what. His primary business concern is still to take care of his long time local clientele first, a clientele that has been buying Cuban cigars for many, many years and a clientele that he can not BS with second rate cigars. Most of his American customers have never even seen a Cuban cigar. His newly found rich american customers will always come second.</B>

Pretty malicious and prejudicial comments from one who has never done business with Mr. Lloyd.

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Default August 10, 1998, 04:41 PM

Well said BobbyK. I would like to add that although I have only had one "buying" experience with Mr. Lloyd, I had the pleasure of speaking to him several times. I also have exchanged a few pleasent emails with him regarding his help and prompt service in aquiring a fine box of Bolivar RCs all packaging perfect. I think JDA can attest to the authenticity of these. I would have no problem dealing with Peter again.
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Default August 10, 1998, 05:49 PM

It is my experience that situations like these are brought about by very unhappy parties, whether legitimate or false; I hope that some agreeable resolution has been found. I don't enjoy seeing anyone's reputation being dragged through the mud. It disturbs me that this type of damaging information gets out time and again here on the CF boards, while the Cigar Family members serve as judge, jury and executioner for the defendant. Peter does a service for those here who wish to deal with him. If you question his product, call him, or better yet, don't do business with him. He always calls clients to "see if everything was received in order". I deal with two tobacconists for one reason; they spend their time and money to <b>CALL ME</b> internationally and check my satisfaction. It is the same thing that I do in my business. Sorry if anyone takes offense at my post, none was intended.

David
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Default August 10, 1998, 07:35 PM

Peter called me today at his expense from overseas just to check if I had any problems with the cigars I purchased. He stressed that he cannot do anything about situations which he has not been made aware. He is very disturbed about claims by peole who never purchased cigars from him as well as from people who may have experienced a problem but have not contacted him. But he called to see if all was OK..one more example of his excellent customer service.

jk
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Default August 10, 1998, 08:53 PM

Peter

Has always been helpful to me in the past. And had always steered me away from "bad" cigars. Have been happy with his suggestions.
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Default August 10, 1998, 09:34 PM

I also will say Peter took the time to call me today. I was not in my office but he was told I would be in tomorrow. Peter is showing a big concern for this situation he is not running away from it but hitting it head on. I respect him for that.
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Default August 10, 1998, 09:37 PM

Not speaking for Peter but maybe if the parties involved contacted him I am confident a resolution could be reached.
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Default August 10, 1998, 09:47 PM

Hell, I spoke with the President of the United States last time he was in So Cal but he's still a...well you know. LOL, Bob
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Default August 10, 1998, 09:55 PM

There are many stories of fake cubans that are sealed and shipped out the front door of the factories. This is the story La Casa del Habano told me when I took returned a bad box of H. Upmann Monarchs. GolfPro is a very respected member of CF and if he said his were fake, I have no reason not to believe him. However, perhap these fakes were out of the control of LLoyds. It is obvious that many people here are very satified with the quality of Lloyds cigar. Reputable shops (in my experience) are will to take back questionable cigars. I'm wondering if GP made an attempt. Might resolve the problem and put this long a$$ thread to sleep.

Bob R.
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Default August 11, 1998, 12:13 PM

Concerning smokering's post yesterday:

Yes, the Bolivar Royal Coronas I received from smokering were definately authentic in all aspects. So were the Sancho Panza Molinos and Fonseca #1. If these all came from Lloyds I have nothing but commendation for the products of his store.
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Default August 11, 1998, 01:03 PM

I think it's time this thread was put to bed. I'm tired of it, and the other threads before this one, I'm sure that most of you are tired of it and Peter Lloyd himself is tired of it I'm sure. I will however stand by my comments, as will the others in this thread I'm sure. As I've said before, I have no ax to grind with A.E. Lloyd, I'm sure he's a gentleman. I was asked to comment on some cigars and I did so, TRUTHFULLY!!!! The problems came when there were those who could not handle the truth, as is always the case. Maybe things could have been handled better in a more gentlemanly manner, but remember we are typing our thoughts here, if we were in person it would be different, problems could get resolved immediately, this is the problem when you do business worldwide, it's not easy, nor is it perfect. But this WWW of ours does give us opportunities we never had before, and I'm willing to put up with some of the crap to keep what we have here. If I have acted unprofessionally here I apologize, but I do not apologize for my comments, for they are truthful, and if the truth has offended someone, that is not my problem.

Simon
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Default August 11, 1998, 08:27 PM

Alright, everyone who is confused and doesn't know what to think raise your hand. Are they real? Are they fake? Experts from both sides, first hand knowledge, happy customers, unhappy customers. What to think. If it helps at all I have split 3 differant boxes from Lloyds with a friend. Bolivar Belicoso Finos = Very good, need age, a little one dementional RyJ Exhibition #3 = Fair, need age (I'm not a big fan of RyJ's it seems) Cuaba Exclusivos Fair, need age, bitter (won't buy again). All cigars are now at least 10-11 months old. Hope this helps. Sorry for beating the dead horse Simon.
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Default July 29, 2009, 03:00 PM

The good old days. Unsubstantiated accusations flying left and right.
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Default July 29, 2009, 03:46 PM

Now this is a blast from the past.


dhoffman1421 at att dot net
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Default July 29, 2009, 03:59 PM

Some interesting names on here too. Kind of funny reading someone questioning the other people's ethics and knowing what he will pull a few years later.
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Default July 29, 2009, 04:49 PM

I STILL will never purchase from him again...
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Default TC's - July 29, 2009, 05:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffery View Post
Not speaking for Peter but maybe if the parties involved contacted him I am confident a resolution could be reached.
Well, from reading YOUR last TC Jeffery, you may not be the one to broker an agreement here LOL
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Default July 29, 2009, 07:27 PM

I remember the whole thing with Golfpro, God Rest his soul, as he said he got a box of fake Bolivar Royal Coronas. Me thinks GP and Harris were in on this one. That was exactly 11 years ago. Shit how time flies. All in all, I think Peter Lloyd is a good "chap" and honest. I think it was a bad mistake. I know for a fact that if you would call Peter he would have replaced them, No Problems or questions. I do not do business with him anymore, prices period is the only drawback. Thank you for reviving this thread.
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Default July 29, 2009, 07:39 PM

Oldie but goodie..... BC (Before Crocs)
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Default July 30, 2009, 05:35 PM

As has been pointed out it is comical to see some who were pointing fingers only to eventually have the fickled finger of fate pointing at them. A true classic.
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